Re: A new hardware

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Re: A new hardware

Muthu Subramanian K
Hi,


Try asking on the gta02-core list as this isn't far from what they're working
on. A lot will depend on how many you're looking to make.


We are looking at simple modifications to gta02(a7) like with/without wifi/gps/...and the touch screen improvement (it isn't accessible at the sides - flat type rather than "inside" type).

I have attached relevant history to this mail for gta02-core...

Thanks!
Muthu Subramanian

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 21:00:49 +0500
From: Muthu Subramanian K <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: A new hardware
To: [hidden email]
Message-ID:
       <[hidden email]
>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi,

We were looking at similar markets in India. Can somebody tell us how much
practically possible is it to manufacture (build) freerunner (replica or
with modifications/improvements) with the current open documentation
available (specifically hardware) from the downloads?

We have good software and marketing team but are yet to build a hardware
team - before which we were looking at the possibilities of building the
phone in India (outsourced/in house).

We would appreciate any kind of help/advice/direction/suggestion/... in this
regard.

Thank you!
Muthu Subramanian


Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2010 20:44:07 +0100
> From: Esben Damgaard <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: A new hardware
> To: Visti Andresen <[hidden email]>
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Visti Andresen skrev:
> > On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 11:37:55 +0100
> > Esben Damgaard <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> http://www.ziilabs.com/products/platforms/ziitrinity.aspx
> >>
> > Interesting hardware, however how open is the hardware?
> > I'm currently waiting for my developer sign-up confirmation,
> > after that I am looking forward to seeing that kind of docs I can
> donwload.
> > But I remain quite pessimistic...
> >
>
> I don't know how open it is, but they do have Linux drivers, and maybe
> Openmoko could get the source.
> But it's just a thought, where the point is that Openmoko should not
> give up. They could look in to how to easily get some new hardware out
> there.
> There is still a demand (unknown of size) that want free phones, and the
> current attempt (Freerunner) was simply not good enough. I just hope
> that something would happen on the hardware side again.
>
>
>
> Esben
>
>
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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 16:32:58 +0000
From: Al Johnson <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: A new hardware
To: [hidden email]
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: Text/Plain;  charset="iso-8859-15"

On Monday 08 March 2010, Muthu Subramanian K wrote:
> Hi,
>
> We were looking at similar markets in India. Can somebody tell us how much
> practically possible is it to manufacture (build) freerunner (replica or
> with modifications/improvements) with the current open documentation
> available (specifically hardware) from the downloads?

Try asking on the gta02-core list as this isn't far from what they're working
on. A lot will depend on how many you're looking to make.


_______________________________________________
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https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/gta02-core
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Re: A new hardware

Dave Ball
Hi Muthu,

Short answer:
It depends how many you intend to build!

Slightly longer answer:
Openmoko released lots of data about the freerunner (schematics, CAD
files etc.), but not all the parts needed for derivative manufacture
(BOM, Gerbers etc.).  Following their decision to stop making phones, we
(gta02-core) have started producing fully open designs for a minor
improvement of the gta02-a7 hardware.

This design is not yet complete, but with some small changes could
possibly deliver what you're after.  Many parts used in the gta02 design
are now difficult to source - such as the cpu and GSM chipset. Our
project is based around the kind donation from openmoko of some
remaining parts from their production run, and other parts we can source
in one-off quantities.  To produce more than the 20 we hope to build
will likely mean upgrading some components to devices that can be easily
sourced in the needed quantities, but this could then result in an
improved device you could mass produce.

Our project does not include improving the freerunner case - we don't
have the resources to change the case ourselves, but that wouldn't stop
you doing so yourself.


It sounds as though GTA02-core could certainly provide a good starting
point for you.  What time frame and manufacture scale are you considering?


Dave


Muthu Subramanian K wrote:

> Hi,
>
>
>     Try asking on the gta02-core list as this isn't far from what
>     they're working
>     on. A lot will depend on how many you're looking to make.
>
>
> We are looking at simple modifications to gta02(a7) like with/without
> wifi/gps/...and the touch screen improvement (it isn't accessible at
> the sides - flat type rather than "inside" type).
>
> I have attached relevant history to this mail for gta02-core...
>
> Thanks!
> Muthu Subramanian
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 21:00:49 +0500
> From: Muthu Subramanian K <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>>
> Subject: Re: A new hardware
> To: [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
> Message-ID:
>        <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi,
>
> We were looking at similar markets in India. Can somebody tell us how much
> practically possible is it to manufacture (build) freerunner (replica or
> with modifications/improvements) with the current open documentation
> available (specifically hardware) from the downloads?
>
> We have good software and marketing team but are yet to build a hardware
> team - before which we were looking at the possibilities of building the
> phone in India (outsourced/in house).
>
> We would appreciate any kind of help/advice/direction/suggestion/...
> in this
> regard.
>
> Thank you!
> Muthu Subramanian

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https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/gta02-core
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Re: A new hardware

Muthu Subramanian K
Hi,

On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 3:16 AM, Dave Ball <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Muthu,

Slightly longer answer:
Openmoko released lots of data about the freerunner (schematics, CAD files etc.), but not all the parts needed for derivative manufacture (BOM, Gerbers etc.).  Following their decision to stop making phones, we (gta02-core) have started producing fully open designs for a minor improvement of the gta02-a7 hardware.

We are planning to build quite a large number. But as you would have guessed we are still in prestudy phase - checking out the possibilities, alternatives etc. But we are really keen on gta02
 
This design is not yet complete, but with some small changes could possibly deliver what you're after.  Many parts used in the gta02 design are now difficult to source - such as the cpu and GSM chipset. Our project is based around the kind donation from openmoko of some remaining parts from their production run, and other parts we can source in one-off quantities.  To produce more than the 20 we hope to build will likely mean upgrading some components to devices that can be easily sourced in the needed quantities, but this could then result in an improved device you could mass produce.
 

Our project does not include improving the freerunner case - we don't have the resources to change the case ourselves, but that wouldn't stop you doing so yourself.

That should not be an issue...we would love to contribute back (if we are doing any kind of improvements/modifications - h/w, s/w, case...)

It sounds as though GTA02-core could certainly provide a good starting point for you.  What time frame and manufacture scale are you considering?
As I already said, we are in prestudy phase so it might be difficult to tell the time frame. But scale wise we are looking at low margins-high volumes and medium margins. We are not looking at the premium segment - (in short) Since its Indian markets we don't have the resources to compete with the bigger players.


Dave

Thanks!
Muthu Subramanian
 

Muthu Subramanian K wrote:
Hi,


   Try asking on the gta02-core list as this isn't far from what
   they're working
   on. A lot will depend on how many you're looking to make.


We are looking at simple modifications to gta02(a7) like with/without wifi/gps/...and the touch screen improvement (it isn't accessible at the sides - flat type rather than "inside" type).

I have attached relevant history to this mail for gta02-core...

Thanks!
Muthu Subramanian

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 21:00:49 +0500
From: Muthu Subramanian K <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>

Subject: Re: A new hardware
To: [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
Message-ID:
      <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>

>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi,

We were looking at similar markets in India. Can somebody tell us how much
practically possible is it to manufacture (build) freerunner (replica or
with modifications/improvements) with the current open documentation
available (specifically hardware) from the downloads?

We have good software and marketing team but are yet to build a hardware
team - before which we were looking at the possibilities of building the
phone in India (outsourced/in house).

We would appreciate any kind of help/advice/direction/suggestion/... in this
regard.

Thank you!
Muthu Subramanian


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https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/gta02-core
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Re: A new hardware

Werner Almesberger
In reply to this post by Muthu Subramanian K
Muthu Subramanian K wrote:
> > We are looking at simple modifications to gta02(a7) like with/without
> wifi/gps/...and the touch screen improvement (it isn't accessible at the
> sides - flat type rather than "inside" type).

Dave already summed up the most important aspects. gta02-core builds
upon the GTA02 design, improving a number of areas where GTA02 had
design flaws or was unnecessarily complex. It also replaces the aging
GSM subsystem with a more up to date module (still GSM, though.)

However, gta02-core isn't meant to be suitable for a mass-produced
device. First of all, some subsystems are obsolete, meaning that they
are no longer supported by the manufacturer, that chips may be
difficult to source, or that they deliver performance that is clearly
sub-standard even for a product that isn't overly ambitious.

The good news is that there are upgrade paths for these subsystems.
All it takes to make these upgrades happen is a bit of engineering
and financial resources.

The case design would certainly need an overhaul, e.g., to make it
generally less bulky and to avoid the large pockets of "embedded air"
the GTA02 features. Improving the bezel/rim around the LCM would be
part of this.

The gta02-core design, once successfully prototypes, would be a better
basis for future development than the original GTA02. Not only does it
solve a number of problems of GTA02 that one would want to address
anyway, but it also uses an open design process, so you're not tied to
proprietary tools and engineering decisions are better documented.

- Werner

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Re: A new hardware

Muthu Subramanian K
Dear Werner,

 
On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 6:10 PM, Werner Almesberger <[hidden email]> wrote:
The gta02-core design, once successfully prototypes, would be a better
basis for future development than the original GTA02. Not only does it
solve a number of problems of GTA02 that one would want to address
anyway, but it also uses an open design process, so you're not tied to
proprietary tools and engineering decisions are better documented.

- Werner
ok...These are ambitituos and aim towards more 'free'er phone. That's really nice. We will wait for the updates then.
I don't know how we would be able to help. We don't have a hardware team, yet. We can help with marketing decisions or with software.
We can also help you with the case design - I don't know how it will help without the hardware redesign.
 
Let us know.
 
Thank you for the detailed explaination, it would really help us.
 
Thanks again,
Muthu Subramanian

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