Re: gta02-core Digest, Vol 11, Issue 12

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Re: gta02-core Digest, Vol 11, Issue 12

Darío San Martín
Hello, I will add my preference although we don´t know how much would be the final price for this combination, but here it goes:

LCM+Battery: 1

Best regards to all.

Darío

2010/4/22 <[hidden email]>
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Today's Topics:

  1. how many gta02-core devices ? (Werner Almesberger)
  2. Re: how many gta02-core devices ? (Werner Almesberger)
  3. Re: how many gta02-core devices ? (Rafael Ignacio Zurita)
  4. Re: how many gta02-core devices ? (Werner Almesberger)
  5. Re: how many gta02-core devices ? (?lvaro Lopes)
  6.  component hunt: some results (Peter Klassen)
  7. Re: how many gta02-core devices ? (Radek Polak)
  8. Re: how many gta02-core devices ? (Al Johnson)


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Message: 1
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 14:07:48 -0300
From: Werner Almesberger <[hidden email]>
Subject: [gta02-core] how many gta02-core devices ?
To: [hidden email]
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

It's been a while since the last time I asked how many people would be
interested in a gta02-core device. For planning ahead on components,
I'd like to take another poll.

The last time, the assumption was that we'd attempt to make a device
that has more or less the feature set of GTA02. Now, depending on the
availability of certain components, it may be necessary to drop
some subsystems. We don't know yet which, if any, but I'd like to
know how any removals would change the demand.

Major items that could have to be removed:

- case: no case parts, just the bare board. The board geometry would
 still be compatible with GTA02, so someone having an empty GTA02
 case (or something equivalent) could place the board inside.

- LCM: the device would come without the LCD display. Anyone who has
 a GTA01 or GTA02 LCD display could connect it.

- battery: there would be no battery. GTA01 and GTA02 batteries and
 the usual substitutes could be used in their stead.

- GPS: the entire GPS subsystem (chips, antenna, connector) would be
 absent

- WLAN: the entire WLAN subsystem (module, antenna, and a few smaller
 components) would be absent

- BT: the entire Bluetooth subsystem (module, antenna, and a few
 smaller components) would be absent

The overall conditions would be similar to before: the per device cost
would be about USD 500 (FOB origin, so add shipping costs and any
customs fees and taxes).

Since the objective would be to pay for the making of the prototypes,
not the production of commercial-grade devices, the engineering and
production risk would be on the side of the buyer. If anything
doesn't work, be it due to flaws in the design or due to manufacturing
problems, you'd still have to pay for it. (So reviewing the material
is a form of protecting your investment ;-)

What I'm looking for is an indication of how many units you would want
given a certain minimum configuration. E.g.,

GPS+WLAN+BT: 2

would mean that you wouldn't want any if GPS, WLAN, or BT were to be
dropped from the design (but note that they can still fail to work
due to bugs), but that you wouldn't require case, LCM, or battery.

none: 2

would mean that you don't require any of the above items, i.e., that
you'd already be happy just to have CPU, audio, USB, and GSM.

If you would actually be happy if something was omitted, please feel
free to indicate this as well. However, it may not be possible to
accommodate any individual wishes (besides simple ones, like "no
battery"), nor would omitting something necessarily change the cost.

This is just to get an idea of what numbers we're talking about,
without any commitment.

Please feel free to send me a private mail if you don't want to post
to the list. I'll then post an "anonymized" summary.

Thanks,
- Werner



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 14:16:53 -0300
From: Werner Almesberger <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [gta02-core] how many gta02-core devices ?
To: [hidden email]
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Here's my entry:

none: 2

- Werner



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 14:28:44 -0300
From: Rafael Ignacio Zurita <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [gta02-core] how many gta02-core devices ?
To: [hidden email]
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Hello,

On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 02:07:48PM -0300, Werner Almesberger wrote:
> It's been a while since the last time I asked how many people would be
> interested in a gta02-core device. For planning ahead on components,
> I'd like to take another poll.

 one question : is this offer open ? I mean, just gta02-core
developers should want/pay gta02-core devices, or it should be
possible that other guys (no currently helping gta02-core project)
ask for gta02-core devices? If this question is NOT just for
gta02-core developers then perhaps we could forward this question to
other openmoko related lists (for example to community ml, writting an email
with a web link to this thread in the gta02-core mailing list web archive).

Bye,
Rafael



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 16:06:45 -0300
From: Werner Almesberger <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [gta02-core] how many gta02-core devices ?
To: Rafael Ignacio Zurita <[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email]
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Rafael Ignacio Zurita wrote:
>   one question : is this offer open ? I mean, just gta02-core
> developers should want/pay gta02-core devices, or it should be
> possible that other guys (no currently helping gta02-core project)

For the purpose of this poll, it's open to anyone. I.e., I'd
like to know how many prototype devices people would want if
we could make an unlimited quantity.

For the actual production, there will be various limits, some
of them may be quite low.

So not everyone who would be interested may be able to get one,
in which case gta02-core project contributors would have
priority.

> If this question is NOT just for gta02-core developers then perhaps we
> could forward this question to other openmoko related lists (for example
> to community ml,

I thought of this. It would certainly help to inflate the numbers,
which is good advertizing ;-)

However, I'm concerned that anyone who isn't at least passively
following the gta02-core project wouldn't be too happy with what
they'd get, and I don't want to raise the wrong expectations.

For instance, it may well be that the devices won't work at all
and we'll never figure out why.

More likely, some things will work and others won't. We may not
have time to test every feature and to analyze every problem, so
it may be necessary to make the prototypes with subsystems that
are defective but may be fixed later (a la buzz fix or #1024).

Some problems may also turn out to be too difficult to fix, e.g.,
any issues with power consumption.

There may be reliably issues, where a device passes initial
testing but fails after transport or in the field.

Also, the total number of devices will be very small and there
will be no direct follow-on model. So it's unlikely that anyone
will put a lot of effort into maintaining support for the
platform.

Since it's quite similar to GTA02, most of the software above
the middleware shouldn't see much of a difference, though.

So this is much more a trophy, a collector's item, or a
scholarly result than anything approaching a real phone. I
can't guarantee that it will be completely unusable, though :-)

- Werner



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 23:50:44 +0100
From: ?lvaro Lopes <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [gta02-core] how many gta02-core devices ?
To: Werner Almesberger <[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email]
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Werner Almesberger wrote:
> It's been a while since the last time I asked how many people would be
> interested in a gta02-core device. For planning ahead on components,
> I'd like to take another poll.
>
> The last time, the assumption was that we'd attempt to make a device
> that has more or less the feature set of GTA02. Now, depending on the
> availability of certain components, it may be necessary to drop
> some subsystems. We don't know yet which, if any, but I'd like to
> know how any removals would change the demand.
>
> Major items that could have to be removed:

Although #gta02-core is meant to be a phone, I think we can also add GSM to this list. I am not planning to use it as a phone, but maybe add a 3G USB modem to
it - internet is more valuable than GSM calls these days.

Other idea of mine is to use a larger LCD - as long as it has same resolution I don't see any obstacle, do you ?

> The overall conditions would be similar to before: the per device cost
> would be about USD 500 (FOB origin, so add shipping costs and any
> customs fees and taxes).

Seems acceptable. At least for me.

Now, we might end with a lot of devices with manufacturing defects in specific areas, like GPS, GSM, so on. We could as easy name those parts we don't mind that
much being broken - would help deciding who's to get which device. For example, I'd like WLAN to be working, but it's not a must. And I don't care about GSM (I
care about GPS just because I'm involved with it, otherwise I would not), so others requiring GSM and WLAN would get the OK device, i'd get the other one.

?lvaro




------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 10:13:26 +0200
From: Peter Klassen <[hidden email]>
Subject: [gta02-core]  component hunt: some results
To: [hidden email]
Message-ID:
       <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hi,
I found both
Atmel ATR0635-7KQY
NXP PCF50633HN/04/N3,5

so far I can tell in stock at

http://stock-point.com

unfortunately I haven't found anything about
shipment quantities.
Maybe you know them and can say without
further investigation if they are worth some work.

best
Peter



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 10:33:46 +0200
From: Radek Polak <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [gta02-core] how many gta02-core devices ?
To: [hidden email]
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: Text/Plain;  charset="iso-8859-1"

On Wednesday 21 April 2010 19:07:48 Werner Almesberger wrote:

> - LCM: the device would come without the LCD display. Anyone who has
>   a GTA01 or GTA02 LCD display could connect it.

What does "connect it" mean here? Would i need to disassemble my freerunner
because of it? FR is my daily phone so if yes then:

LCM: 1

Another question. Would it be possible to use the board without LCD display
let's say for developing QtMoko distro? I could be comfortable just with VNC,
and SSH via USB. If yes then:

none: 1

Regards

Radek



------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 09:44:47 +0100
From: Al Johnson <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [gta02-core] how many gta02-core devices ?
To: [hidden email]
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: Text/Plain;  charset="iso-8859-1"

On Thursday 22 April 2010, Radek Polak wrote:
> On Wednesday 21 April 2010 19:07:48 Werner Almesberger wrote:
> > - LCM: the device would come without the LCD display. Anyone who has
> >   a GTA01 or GTA02 LCD display could connect it.
>
> What does "connect it" mean here? Would i need to disassemble my freerunner
> because of it?

That, or get one from somewhere else. There seem to be plenty on ebay.



------------------------------

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