SHR testing 22.april experience

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SHR testing 22.april experience

Helge Hafting
flashed the new image of april 22., and the 2.6.29 kernel

Change from usb0 to ethX - ok, updated the PC.

In the beginning I get to select "fastcall icons". What is this, what
happens to selected and un-selected apps?

SHR settings no longer has a place to select between "ethernet mode" and
"storage device"? :-/ I actually never used the storage device mode, but
  imagine it could be useful at times. especially when using someone
else's pc in an emergency.

pcalc is a huge improvement! :-)
It'd still be nice to have arrow keys: left&right for editing, up&down
for recalling earlier commands. Just like the command line. A scientific
mode with sin,cos,tan and such could be nice too, but of course the keys
will get rather small in such a mode.

The alarm works! :-)

The alarm .wav file ought to be selectable as a ringtone. I.e. the alarm
app should keep its sound file in /usr/share/sounds. And to lower the
cpu-load on this often overloaded device, consider shipping and
defaulting to mono ringtones. Well, having stereo alternatives makes
sense for those who use earphones lots of the time.

I have a mono version of the alarm sound as ringtone now.

tangogps crashes when trying to change the map directory. Well-known
problem with tangogps, and with a well-known workaround.

Contacts icon is now a blank sheet?


Still cannot type non-ascii into contacts or sms, even though my
keyboard supports this.  The font is ok too - no problem with incoming
SMS. :-(

ARGH! "rm" asks if I want to remove the file I told it to remove! "cp"
asks if I want to overwrite the file I told it to overwrite! AAAAAAAAARGH!
Can we loose this idiocy and never get it back?  The linux command line
is not supposed to do that! Guess what happens when I paste some
commands from my custom setup file after flashing :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(
That's the worst of all problems with this image so far.

It is a phone. Not an enterprise server. If I ever wreck something
vital, I just reflash it!

The bogus file /etc/opkg/armv4-feed.conf was noted long ago, but is
still in the image?

An "opkg upgrade" actually makes more apps available. Shipping an image
where this has been done already might be more userfriendly - although
it will obviously not be up-to-date for long.

sms-sentry is in the image - great! :-)

dillo is in the image, but a newer version exists:
http://misc.andi.de1.cc/dillo/dillo-ssl_2.0-r0_armv4t.opk

All in all, many improvements but the rm/cp silliness is awful.

Helge Hafting

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Re: SHR testing 22.april experience

Sebastian Krzyszkowiak
On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 17:49, Helge Hafting <[hidden email]> wrote:
In the beginning I get to select "fastcall icons". What is this, what
happens to selected and un-selected apps?
 
Nothing. It should be removed.

SHR settings no longer has a place to select between "ethernet mode" and
"storage device"? :-/ I actually never used the storage device mode, but
 imagine it could be useful at times. especially when using someone
else's pc in an emergency.

It never hasn't a place to select it. At beginning, it has unprogrammed toggle. It was only looking, nothing more. I've commented it until we'll get it working.

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Re: SHR testing 22.april experience

roby-2
In reply to this post by Helge Hafting
On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 5:49 PM, Helge Hafting <[hidden email]> wrote:
> ARGH! "rm" asks if I want to remove the file I told it to remove! "cp"
> asks if I want to overwrite the file I told it to overwrite! AAAAAAAAARGH!
> Can we loose this idiocy and never get it back?  The linux command line
> is not supposed to do that! Guess what happens when I paste some
> commands from my custom setup file after flashing :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(
> That's the worst of all problems with this image so far.
I think those problems come from the using of busybox as substitute
for all the shell commands. The problem is that the busybox
implementations often remove some useful options to keep the
executable small, but it invalidates most of the scripts.. For
example, the tar command loose the -z -j and -C options, all of them
very useful.. You can obtain the desired behaviour of tar by piping
the input into gunzip or bunzip2 and similar things, but all the
scripts are surely broken... My suggestion is to install the original
shell commands from somewhere if you feel the need of the original
versions.

--
roby

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Re: SHR testing 22.april experience

Yorick Moko
In reply to this post by Sebastian Krzyszkowiak
If we have the previous shr-testing from a few days ago (april 16?)
can we do an opkg update && opkg upgrade ?
or will it not work?

On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 5:55 PM, Johny Tenfinger <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 17:49, Helge Hafting <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> In the beginning I get to select "fastcall icons". What is this, what
>> happens to selected and un-selected apps?
>
>
> Nothing. It should be removed.
>
>> SHR settings no longer has a place to select between "ethernet mode" and
>> "storage device"? :-/ I actually never used the storage device mode, but
>>  imagine it could be useful at times. especially when using someone
>> else's pc in an emergency.
>
> It never hasn't a place to select it. At beginning, it has unprogrammed
> toggle. It was only looking, nothing more. I've commented it until we'll get
> it working.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Shr-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.projects.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/shr-devel
>
>

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Re: SHR testing 22.april experience

Sebastian Krzyszkowiak
In reply to this post by roby-2


On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 18:01, roby <[hidden email]> wrote:
I think those problems come from the using of busybox as substitute
for all the shell commands.

I think that are aliases we introduced some time ago. For some people this is improvement, and for some this isn't. If for you it isn't, you can simply edit /etc/profile file ;)


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Re: SHR testing 22.april experience

Mike Westerhof (mwester)
In reply to this post by roby-2
roby wrote:

> I think those problems come from the using of busybox as substitute
> for all the shell commands. The problem is that the busybox
> implementations often remove some useful options to keep the
> executable small, but it invalidates most of the scripts.. For
> example, the tar command loose the -z -j and -C options, all of them
> very useful..

Good timing!

Please file bugs whenever you encounter such troubles.  Many of the
"issues" with busybox are just configuration options in the build
(that's certainly the case with the tar options).

Opening these as bugs will allow us to track the issues.  If it's just
as simple as a busybox configuration item, we can fix that easily (it's
not like we don't have space in the flash for busybox!).

If it's something that busybox just can't do, and it seems reasonable to
have it in the base image, then there's no reason we can't just add the
pertinent package to the base image (for example, I'd like to see perl
in the base image (of course, perl is an example of something that's NOT
reasonable for the base image!)).

I was actually just about to go fix the tar options for busybox today
sometime, but I'll wait to hear what other features folks might like to
see/use before I make the update.  So please open the bug (and feel free
to discuss on the mailing list too).

Thanks,
Mike (mwester)

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Re: SHR testing 22.april experience

Sebastian Krzyszkowiak
In reply to this post by Sebastian Krzyszkowiak
Sending to list too...

On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 18:20, Pietro Montorfano <[hidden email]> wrote:
Yes it's in the /etc/profile, there are some alias like rm="rm -i" and
so on.
For me they aren't an improvement because the unix philosophy is "root
know what is doing" so if root decide to make a good "rm -Rf /" it
should be able to do that without any question like "hey, are you
shure?" the reply should be "what the f.. i'm root, i can do anything i
want!".
Obviously i've removed those alias but for someone are an improvement.

For now we don't have so much choise... Everyone must be root ;)

BTW. rm -rf / isn't allowed in upstream ;)


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Re: SHR testing 22.april experience

piratebab
In reply to this post by Helge Hafting
Some revision of testing, but alarm dont wake up the phone in my case
(if I wake it up manually, it's ringing, but useless ....).
If someone confirm the problem, I will open a bug ticket.


Helge Hafting a écrit :

> flashed the new image of april 22., and the 2.6.29 kernel
>
> Change from usb0 to ethX - ok, updated the PC.
>
> In the beginning I get to select "fastcall icons". What is this, what
> happens to selected and un-selected apps?
>
> SHR settings no longer has a place to select between "ethernet mode" and
> "storage device"? :-/ I actually never used the storage device mode, but
>   imagine it could be useful at times. especially when using someone
> else's pc in an emergency.
>
> pcalc is a huge improvement! :-)
> It'd still be nice to have arrow keys: left&right for editing, up&down
> for recalling earlier commands. Just like the command line. A scientific
> mode with sin,cos,tan and such could be nice too, but of course the keys
> will get rather small in such a mode.
>
> The alarm works! :-)
>
> The alarm .wav file ought to be selectable as a ringtone. I.e. the alarm
> app should keep its sound file in /usr/share/sounds. And to lower the
> cpu-load on this often overloaded device, consider shipping and
> defaulting to mono ringtones. Well, having stereo alternatives makes
> sense for those who use earphones lots of the time.
>
> I have a mono version of the alarm sound as ringtone now.
>
> tangogps crashes when trying to change the map directory. Well-known
> problem with tangogps, and with a well-known workaround.
>
> Contacts icon is now a blank sheet?
>
>
> Still cannot type non-ascii into contacts or sms, even though my
> keyboard supports this.  The font is ok too - no problem with incoming
> SMS. :-(
>
> ARGH! "rm" asks if I want to remove the file I told it to remove! "cp"
> asks if I want to overwrite the file I told it to overwrite! AAAAAAAAARGH!
> Can we loose this idiocy and never get it back?  The linux command line
> is not supposed to do that! Guess what happens when I paste some
> commands from my custom setup file after flashing :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(
> That's the worst of all problems with this image so far.
>
> It is a phone. Not an enterprise server. If I ever wreck something
> vital, I just reflash it!
>
> The bogus file /etc/opkg/armv4-feed.conf was noted long ago, but is
> still in the image?
>
> An "opkg upgrade" actually makes more apps available. Shipping an image
> where this has been done already might be more userfriendly - although
> it will obviously not be up-to-date for long.
>
> sms-sentry is in the image - great! :-)
>
> dillo is in the image, but a newer version exists:
> http://misc.andi.de1.cc/dillo/dillo-ssl_2.0-r0_armv4t.opk
>
> All in all, many improvements but the rm/cp silliness is awful.
>
> Helge Hafting
>
> _______________________________________________
> Shr-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.projects.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/shr-devel
>
>
>  


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Re: SHR testing 22.april experience

spaetz
In reply to this post by Helge Hafting
Helge Hafting wrote:
> Change from usb0 to ethX - ok, updated the PC.
Yep, as announced by mwester. This actually makes my NetworkManager work
(it brings up the interface automatically)

> In the beginning I get to select "fastcall icons". What is this, what
> happens to selected and un-selected apps?

I never found out what this is, I'd be interested too.

> SHR settings no longer has a place to select between "ethernet mode" and
> "storage device"? :-/ I actually never used the storage device mode, but
>   imagine it could be useful at times. especially when using someone
> else's pc in an emergency.
I think that was some kernel path changes

> pcalc is a huge improvement! :-)
> It'd still be nice to have arrow keys: left&right for editing, up&down
> for recalling earlier commands. Just like the command line. A scientific
> mode with sin,cos,tan and such could be nice too, but of course the keys
> will get rather small in such a mode.
Thanks, it is my very simple try at an elementary application :-). Left
right arrows should be simple ... but ... where would you place them?
all keys are used up. Any proposal on how to handle that? I'd be happy.
Recalling previous commands is a little more involved but not too
complicated. Same thing: how should I handle the additional keys and
I'll add it in.

BTW; the line is calculated by python's eval(). Which can execute ANY
python. So don't enter stuff such as "import :-)
> The alarm works! :-)

on and off, works for some, but not for others (even in unstable)

> The alarm .wav file ought to be selectable as a ringtone. I.e. the alarm
> app should keep its sound file in /usr/share/sounds. And to lower the
> cpu-load on this often overloaded device, consider shipping and
> defaulting to mono ringtones. Well, having stereo alternatives makes
> sense for those who use earphones lots of the time.
It's a testing app in the enlightenment svn that we use, any major
improvements would mean forking or to improve the code there.

> tangogps crashes when trying to change the map directory. Well-known
> problem with tangogps, and with a well-known workaround.
yep :-(

> Contacts icon is now a blank sheet?
Works fine here. Icon categories (in .desktop) files have changed
already again in current -unstable (I think e-wm-menu happened after the
move).

> Still cannot type non-ascii into contacts or sms, even though my
> keyboard supports this.  The font is ok too - no problem with incoming
> SMS. :-(
I think this has been fixed in current -unstable. Try to install an
utf-8 locale on your device.

> ARGH! "rm" asks if I want to remove the file I told it to remove! "cp"
> asks if I want to overwrite the file I told it to overwrite! AAAAAAAAARGH!
> Can we loose this idiocy and never get it back?  The linux command line
> is not supposed to do that! Guess what happens when I paste some
> commands from my custom setup file after flashing :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(
> That's the worst of all problems with this image so far.

that is "busybox" and the configuration file. SHR just uses what
upstream OE provides. I agree that it should not ask by default. Busybox
configuration will need looking at anyway, I want my tar -xzf back (no
gzip possible currently)

> The bogus file /etc/opkg/armv4-feed.conf was noted long ago, but is
> still in the image?
Yep, and it's automatically created by some error in some .bb file. Care
to find out how and where? I have looked and failed.


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Re: SHR testing 22.april experience

Petr Vanek
In reply to this post by Mike Westerhof (mwester)
> M(> I was actually just about to go fix the tar options for busybox
> today sometime, but I'll wait to hear what other features folks
> might like to see/use before I make the update.  So please open
> the bug (and feel free to discuss on the mailing list too).

for me

less +F

if possible, right now +F is being ignored :)

Petr

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Re: SHR testing 22.april experience

spaetz
In reply to this post by Mike Westerhof (mwester)
Mike (mwester) wrote:
> I was actually just about to go fix the tar options for busybox today
> sometime, but I'll wait to hear what other features folks might like to
> see/use before I make the update.  So please open the bug (and feel free
> to discuss on the mailing list too).

gzip support for tar is my favorite. And I agree that an alias for "rm =
rm -i " is silly, although this is not something busybox can change as
it is in /etc/profile

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Re: SHR testing 22.april experience

Julien Cassignol
In reply to this post by spaetz
On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 10:49 PM, Sebastian Spaeth <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> Still cannot type non-ascii into contacts or sms, even though my
>> keyboard supports this.  The font is ok too - no problem with incoming
>> SMS. :-(
> I think this has been fixed in current -unstable. Try to install an
> utf-8 locale on your device.

Working here too with french locales.


> Yep, and it's automatically created by some error in some .bb file. Care
> to find out how and where? I have looked and failed.

This isn't an error. This is intended, as we can have armv4 or armv4t
software for our MACHINE. Fact is, we don't build armv4 software, so
we don't have a feed. Quick & dirty fix is to build a dummy package
for armv4 arch, and build it, to generate the field.

--
Julien Cassignol
http://www.ainulindale.net

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Re: SHR testing 22.april experience

Helge Hafting
In reply to this post by Yorick Moko
Yorick Moko wrote:
> If we have the previous shr-testing from a few days ago (april 16?)
> can we do an opkg update && opkg upgrade ?
> or will it not work?
>
I have the impression that "upgrade" is supposed to work for "stable",
when that gets released.

No promise is made for "testing" or "unstable", as not spending time on
upgradeability gives more time for development. So it may work - and it
may not. Reflashing is the safe choice for now.


Some tricks for easier reflashing:
* Put /usr/local on the SDcard. Any custom scripts you may have
   goes in /usr/local/bin. (Which is on the $PATH) I have scripts for
   starting tangogps with suspend off, and a car-powered mode where
   the backlight stays on also.

* Put /home on the SDcard also, so you can keeps maps, music etc.
   over reflashing.

* I have a "myinstall" script in /usr/local/bin.
   It does most of the post-flash stuff I need, such as:
   - install various apps using opkg
   - set up /etc/fstab with the above mentioned sdcard folders,
     as well as swapping on a SD partition.
   - copy various files from SDcard into the root partition,
     such as my Norwegian keyboard, the wpa-supplicant config file,
     a better ringtone, and desktop files for my tangogps scripts.

   If you flash often, such a script does the rest. If you flash
   once in a while, you will want to check for new versions of
   apps before fetching from outside the shr distro.

Helge Hafting

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Re: SHR testing 22.april experience

Helge Hafting
In reply to this post by spaetz
Sebastian Spaeth wrote:

>> pcalc is a huge improvement! :-)
>> It'd still be nice to have arrow keys: left&right for editing, up&down
>> for recalling earlier commands. Just like the command line. A scientific
>> mode with sin,cos,tan and such could be nice too, but of course the keys
>> will get rather small in such a mode.
> Thanks, it is my very simple try at an elementary application :-). Left
> right arrows should be simple ... but ... where would you place them?
> all keys are used up. Any proposal on how to handle that? I'd be happy.
> Recalling previous commands is a little more involved but not too
> complicated. Same thing: how should I handle the additional keys and
> I'll add it in.
>
I'll take a look at this. Obviously, adding more keys necessitates
making the existing ones somewhat smaller.

> BTW; the line is calculated by python's eval(). Which can execute ANY
> python. So don't enter stuff such as "import :-)
>> The alarm works! :-)
>
> on and off, works for some, but not for others (even in unstable)
>
More testing: it works fine _if_ the phone is awake. A suspended phone
don't wake up. Also, the time is shown with am/pm. I hope there is (or
will be) some way to request a 24-hour clock. Perhaps a locale setup?

>> Still cannot type non-ascii into contacts or sms, even though my
>> keyboard supports this.  The font is ok too - no problem with incoming
>> SMS. :-(
> I think this has been fixed in current -unstable. Try to install an
> utf-8 locale on your device.
>
I have "testing" currently. Perhaps it can't be done yet then.
Any locale file I try to install, fail because these two are  missing:
  virtual-locale-locale.alias virtual-locale-nb
nothing seems to provide them. Perhaps I'll have a look at unstable.

Having the user interfaces in english is not a problem for me, but
inability to type what I want definitely is.

>> ARGH! "rm" asks if I want to remove the file I told it to remove! "cp"
>> asks if I want to overwrite the file I told it to overwrite! .
>
> that is "busybox" and the configuration file. SHR just uses what
Thanks, "rm /etc/profile" fixed this.




Big problem - wifi failure:

  $ iwlist eth0 scan
eth0      Interface doesn't support scanning.

Strange. This indicates that eth0 supports wifi:
  $ iwconfig eth0
eth0      AR6000 802.11g  ESSID:""
           Mode:Managed  Bit Rate:0 kb/s   Sensitivity=0
           Encryption key:off
           Link Quality:0  Signal level:0  Noise level:0
           Rx invalid nwid:0  invalid crypt:0  invalid misc:0

I can set the encryption key, but not the essid ???

Kernel 2.6.29 problem, or a missing module?


Small settings glitch:

The phone setup lets me set ring volume. Default is 10, but it seems
like this can be increased arbitrarily above that. It ought to stop at
whatever the max value is. (10?)


Package problem:

sms-sentry is in SHR now, but it still doesn't work. It notices the
incoming trigger message, and reads the gps coordinates. Then it fails
to send an answer back.


Suggestion for improvement:

The "gateway" line in /etc/network/interfaces
ought to look like this:
         gateway 192.168.0.200 metric 1
The point of "metric 1" is that if you bring up the wireless interface
_and_ gets a default route there, then you have two default routes. And
you definitely want to use the _fastest_ one, which is the wireless.
with "metric 1", the kernel believes usb0 to be a "longer" route. It
will be used when it is the only one, and "put on hold" when you bring
up the wireless. Stop the wireless and the usb0 route will again be used
because it is then the only route.

Without "metric 1", usb0 tends to get preference because it is "first".

Helge Hafting

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