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To focus, or to re-focus ?

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To focus, or to re-focus ?

AlvieBoy
Hi all,

This is going to be a lengthy email, at least from my point of view, so I apologise in advance - however I feel I must share my feelings with you all about
gta02-core, about what we have done so far, about our goals and objectives, and about what changed outside since we started this.

And of course, pardon my english.

We have not done much in last months - at least not something worth posting to a weekly blog. A large amount of work is done on the back stages - this is good,
but we have promised more, and we ought to have had some devices out by now.

Why did we lag so much ?

Well, I see several reasons. Let me enumerate those:

- iPhone came out. Although not a state-of-the-art hw platform, seems like it flipped a page on mobile devices. Stupid maybe, but consumers do have the last
word on this.
- iPhone again - iPhone caused a rush to build PDA-like mobiles and now we have (and we expect) offers that simply obfuscate our project, in all [but openess]
areas - see upcoming HTC Legend.
- We lost focus.
- We agree our current hardware is obsolete, and does not give a real benefit over other options (iPhone excluded - iPhone is a black box not even worth mentioning)

So, what are our goals and objectives ?

Those were: create a fully open device so that others can improve on the design and fit it to its own purpose (mobile manufacturers included). Why ? This will
give them freedom, this will give them faster TTM and cheaper mobiles. And, of course, we have a lot of fun designing and adapting the beast.

Are this still our goals and objectives ?

Don't get me wrong on this - I love gta02-core, I love the work we did, I want to keep on giving the best I have to give to the project. You guys are simply
amazing, a great team, in all senses, I don't want to throw this project away- I threw too many.

But I feel we need to either focus, or re-focus. Meaning, focusing on what we did so far, keep our objectives, or rethink parts and rather focus on that.

Again, lengthy post. Sorry bout that.

Best,

Álvaro


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Re: To focus, or to re-focus ?

Patryk Benderz
[cut - lots of pain ;)]
> But I feel we need to either focus, or re-focus. Meaning, focusing on
> what we did so far, keep our objectives, or rethink parts and rather
> focus on that.
So... do you mean like making completely new hardware design using
latest chips?

--
Patryk "LeadMan" Benderz
Linux Registered User #377521
()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   - against proprietary attachments


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Re: To focus, or to re-focus ?

Werner Almesberger
In reply to this post by AlvieBoy
?lvaro Lopes wrote:
> Why did we lag so much ?
>
> Well, I see several reasons. Let me enumerate those:

Hmm, I don't think the market perspective should have a major impact
on gta02-core. It was never the goal of gta02-core to make competitive
hardware, but rather to acquire and validate the skills and tools to
do so.

It would be foolish to try to mass-produce the gta02-core device. But
if one wanted to, one could make a considerably more up to date unit
with relatively minor modifications, and reusing the process used for
making gta02-core. Note that this would still need a fair amount of
money, for prototype runs, field tests, certification, and all this.

In fact, I consider it a feature that gta02-core isn't meant to be a
"real" product, because it would be extremely difficult to defend the
effort spent on evaluating, fixing, and making tools if we had real
investors breathing down our necks. (Of course, a little help from a
philanthropic multimillionaire who doesn't mind if the ROI takes a
bit longer - if it comes at all - would be nice to have :)


For me, our main weakness are the components. For a number of
reasons, Openmoko Inc. didn't have any control over the components
for a very long time, and it wasn't even clear if this situation
would improve.

So by the time we had the schematics largely done, have found an SMT
line, and have figured out the key parameters for making the PCBs, we
couldn't really move forward with major items (i.e., the layout),
without knowing the component situation.

Another issue is that I underestimated the amount of cheerleading the
project needs (or, to put it differently, that it hadn't required the
critical mass where a cheerleader isn't necessary), and the
interruptions I would get from real life interferences, such as
moving and remodeling of my new apartment (still going on, but
mercifully coming to an end soon). So whenever something else kept me
away for a few weeks, work would slow down and eventually stop.

These stoppages caused also smaller bits of work to be unfinished,
such as the remaining open issues in ECNs, or reviews of the BOM.
None of them are truly showstoppers, but each such problem makes it a
bit harder to move forward.


Regarding the market, I think Android is considerably more of a
competitor than the iPhone. Many parties are interested in having an
open platform, and while Apple make it easy to compete with them on
openness, it's harder to convey the benefits of being more open than
Android.

However, we can avoid this issue by considering this kind of openness
as a mere enabler (poof, Apple vanishes :-) and putting emphasis on
the open hardware. This appeals to a different clientele, but they've
been interested in the Openmoko project for a long time already, so
it's not really something new. Also, opening the hardware design is a
key element of gta02-core already for engineering reasons, so nothing
changes there either.


To be continued ... I'll be beset by construction workers in a bit,
so I have to get ready to face the day.

- Werner

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Re: To focus, or to re-focus ?

AlvieBoy
Werner Almesberger wrote:

> It would be foolish to try to mass-produce the gta02-core device. But
> if one wanted to, one could make a considerably more up to date unit
> with relatively minor modifications, and reusing the process used for
> making gta02-core. Note that this would still need a fair amount of
> money, for prototype runs, field tests, certification, and all this.

Sure, I'm not saying we ought ot do it, but some third party might. My point is - are *we* to use these prototypes for anything ? I don't use my Gta02 due to
its lack of features, like battery life - only use it as a GPS.

> So by the time we had the schematics largely done, have found an SMT
> line, and have figured out the key parameters for making the PCBs, we
> couldn't really move forward with major items (i.e., the layout),
> without knowing the component situation.

So why not making this a bit more attractive to hackers by changing some parts of the design ? For example, changing CPU and display driver. And maybe add some
room inside for attaching a custom small PCB (we should have a bit of space right now). I'd like to have a WPAN module inside the case, for example. Don't
mention USB please, it's not practical.

> These stoppages caused also smaller bits of work to be unfinished,
> such as the remaining open issues in ECNs, or reviews of the BOM.
> None of them are truly showstoppers, but each such problem makes it a
> bit harder to move forward.

True. But we can start layout with what we have, or cannot we ?

> Regarding the market, I think Android is considerably more of a
> competitor than the iPhone. Many parties are interested in having an
> open platform, and while Apple make it easy to compete with them on
> openness, it's harder to convey the benefits of being more open than
> Android.

If you are referring to software, yes. But hardware is closed.

> However, we can avoid this issue by considering this kind of openness
> as a mere enabler (poof, Apple vanishes :-) and putting emphasis on
> the open hardware. This appeals to a different clientele, but they've
> been interested in the Openmoko project for a long time already, so
> it's not really something new. Also, opening the hardware design is a
> key element of gta02-core already for engineering reasons, so nothing
> changes there either.

My worries are design becoming so obsolete that it does not fit any concrete purpose. Like designing an open hardware vacuum-tube television. It's fun, but
won't fit any practical use.

> To be continued ... I'll be beset by construction workers in a bit,
> so I have to get ready to face the day.

Heh :) That's why I decided to buy one, and not build my own :P

Álvaro

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Re: To focus, or to re-focus ?

Werner Almesberger
?lvaro Lopes wrote:
> Sure, I'm not saying we ought ot do it, but some third party might.
> My point is - are *we* to use these prototypes for anything ?

You should be able to use it like any GTA02, except with faster
graphics. Plus, you could brag about having co-designed it :-)

> For example, changing CPU and display driver.

Which CPU ? What else besides the CPU chip would have to change ?
Would this significantly increase the design risk ? Can it be
sourced in quantities of 20 units and if yes, at what price ?
Does it come with stacked memory or does it need external chips ?

I think changing the CPU is too risky, even for a very similar
chip. Even the difference between 2442A and 2442B would be
dangerously large. If the CPU change requires a separate board
spin, the whole "building a phone on a shoestring" plan falls
apart quickly.

> And maybe add some
> room inside for attaching a custom small PCB

This brings us to the point of being able to make case changes.
We don't have this ability yet. People have talked about it a bit,
but I haven't seen anything happen. I don't know why.

> (we should have a bit of space right now).

Hmm, we'll see. Our PCB will be simpler and it'll be the first
layout of such complexity for probably all of us, so we may need
a bit more generous component spacing. Also, the modem does
actually get larger.

> True. But we can start layout with what we have, or cannot we ?

We're very close. We should at least first fix the components we
can be sure will be missing, namely:

cd svn.openmoko.org/trunk/gta02-core/bom
make optimist
make show-missing

We can ignore ATR0635, PCF50633, and WM8753, since they're all
or nothing anyway. But the rest still needs replacing (with parts
that can be readily sourced, e.g., that Digi-Key stocks) and some
of the footprints may change as a consequence.

You can also to the same with "make pessimist". If you add a
replacement we don't need in the end, the BOM system will know
to ignore it because the original part is cheaper.

> If you are referring to software, yes. But hardware is closed.

Exactly my point :)

> My worries are design becoming so obsolete that it does not fit any
> concrete purpose.

That depends a lot on what comes next. If a similar design were
to be built based on gta02-core, many things would stay the same.
For something radically different, there would be lots of changes,
of course.

> Like designing an open hardware vacuum-tube television. It's fun, but
> won't fit any practical use.

Don't underestimate the value of experience :) The tube may not
be of much practical use, but you'll still learn a lot about
making TVs :-)

> Heh :) That's why I decided to buy one, and not build my own :P

I bought as well, but there's a bit of stuff that needs fixing.
And if IT projects are rife with budget and schedule overruns,
then there's a whole new world waiting in remodeling projects :-(

Anyway, workers are arriving, time to plan the mistakes to be made
today.

- Werner

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