When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing

[RANJAN-3]

Hi,

When is the next and more powerful openmoko (capable of seamless 3D video and faster processor) is going to be released???

Regards
Sriranjan

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[Nashvin Gangaram]

Hi

I don't think anytime soon:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openmoko#Canceled_devices

Regards,
Nashvin

On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 2:12 PM, RANJAN <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

When is the next and more powerful openmoko (capable of seamless 3D video and faster processor) is going to be released???

Regards
Sriranjan

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[Gay, John (GE Energy Services, Non-GE)]

>  Hi,
Hello, there (-=
>
>  When is the next and more powerful openmoko (capable of seamless 3D
video and faster processor) is going to be released???
As soon as you design it? I've heard that some people are looking at
taking the openmoko core project and trying to apply it to better
hardware. There were some offers to use production facilities and such,
but I wouldn't hold my breath.

But it would be nice.
>  
>  Regards
>  Sriranjan
>

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[Michael 'Mickey' Lauer-2]

Hi Sriranjan,

as far as i know, openmoko is no longer working on phones.

Unfortunately the freedom loving people are doomed to either work on
anti-vendor-ports (such as HTC devices etc.) or live with one of the
semi-free alternatives (Palm Pre, Nokia N900). Right now there is no
device rivaling the FreeRunner's openness, nothing comes close.

I don't see that changing soon.

Cheers,

:M:


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[Brian-32]

On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:55:21 +0200
"Dr. Michael Lauer" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Sriranjan,
>
> as far as i know, openmoko is no longer working on phones.
>

That does seem to be the case and it is a shame.

> Unfortunately the freedom loving people are doomed to either work on
> anti-vendor-ports (such as HTC devices etc.) or live with one of the
> semi-free alternatives (Palm Pre, Nokia N900). Right now there is no
> device rivaling the FreeRunner's openness, nothing comes close.
>

I wouldn't necessarily color all ports of FOSS as anti-vendor. In fact
don't they demonstrate the versatility and adaptability of FOSS in
relation to all hardware, especially hardware that isn't open? That's a
good thing if the goal is to strive towards choice for consumers.
Granted it's not the ideal situation but it is a step in the right
direction.
 
> I don't see that changing soon.
>

Call me a glass half-full person but I have to disagree with you here.
The fact that more ARM based mobile devices are becoming ubiquitous is
going to drive prices down and will also drive innovation and quality up
right? That's a good thing in my book, just as MS-DOS and Windows drove
down the cost of hardware in the PC field. I do not however use or
endorse Microsoft products but I do give them credit for helping to
accelerate hardware development and make it more affordable.

I'm not a lawyer and I wouldn't wish that upon my worst enemy but the
international maze of patent and trade agreements must cost an absolute
fortune to feed. It's ironic in a way, since the whole concept behind
patents is to protect the inventor and allow them to recoup R&D costs.
It certainly wasn't envisioned as a means to create an unlimited cash
cow that stifles innovation by threat of lawsuits which lead to
bankruptcy. Correct me if I'm wrong but that's the sort of thing people
like us that champion openness argue against right?

The only reason why FOSS exists and will continue to exist is because
there's nobody to bankrupt or buy out. We already know FOSS pays in
spades just ask Google, IBM, Redhat etc. So why haven't the hardware
manufacturers figured this out yet? I think they've come to the
conclusion that the status quo suits them just fine.

Too bad, it's stories like this one that illustrate what open hardware
can accomplish that inspire me:

http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/vietnam804/video/video_index.html

Industrial collusion can be dangerous; it isn't always a bad thing
provided it's monitored, sanctioned, and most of all open. That story
is inspiring mainly due to it's human interest aspect. I'd like to see
this sort of collusion in industry especially in aspects that affect
all of us like pollution, food production, medicine etc. It's still
baffling to me that industry just doesn't get it yet.

Brian

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[Sam Tygier]

On 12/08/10 13:12, RANJAN wrote:
> Hi,
>
> When is the next and more powerful openmoko (capable of seamless 3D
> video and faster processor) is going to be released???
>
> Regards
> Sriranjan

there are 2 projects working on a future open phone.

GTA02-core
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Gta02-core
http://gta02-core-news.blogspot.com/
last thing i heard on the mailing list is that they plan to make a small number (something like 20), and were collecting names of people who wanted to buy them (costing more, than a freerunner, and with a low chance of being fully functional). basically good for devs.

Openmoko Beagle Hybrid
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openmoko_Beagle_Hybrid
http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Openmoko%20Beagle
A board to attach a beagleboard to an openmoko phone. its not actually a functioning phone, but lets you design a software stack for a future openmoko type phone, with much faster hardware.

note: i am not deeply involved, so i speak with no authority, but this is how i see it:

the difficulty in making a working phone is the economies of scale. i think there were about 10k freerunners made, which is maybe of the order of 2 million dollar/euro. even then you can't compete with specs on mainstream phones. so you need someone willing to put up a lot of money to get going.

hopefully the costs of hardware will continue to fall. opensource hardware is growing. if there are people working on designs, then all it takes is an investor and or benevolent, and it will be go again.  it would be nice if someone could get an openphone foundation going to focus the effort.

sam


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[Joshua Judson Rosen]

Brian <[hidden email]> writes:

>
> On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:55:21 +0200
> "Dr. Michael Lauer" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Unfortunately the freedom loving people are doomed to either work on
> > anti-vendor-ports (such as HTC devices etc.) or live with one of the
> > semi-free alternatives (Palm Pre, Nokia N900). Right now there is no
> > device rivaling the FreeRunner's openness, nothing comes close.
>
> I wouldn't necessarily color all ports of FOSS as anti-vendor. In fact
> don't they demonstrate the versatility and adaptability of FOSS in
> relation to all hardware, especially hardware that isn't open? That's a
> good thing if the goal is to strive towards choice for consumers.
> Granted it's not the ideal situation but it is a step in the right
> direction.

The term "anti-vendor port" initially struck me as a little odd, as well,
but now I think that Mickey is using a fairly strict definition of "anti-",
meaning "contrary to"--with "anti-vendor" meaning "contrary to the vendor"
or (more clearly) "contrary to the wishes or actions of the vendor".

--
"Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr))))."

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[Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller]

Am 12.08.2010 um 14:12 schrieb RANJAN:

> Hi,
>
> When is the next and more powerful openmoko (capable of seamless 3D video and faster processor) is going to be released???

Assume, you could get a motherboard upgrade board that fits into the Freerunner (or Neo1973) case. Based on the TI OMAP3 SoC (OMAP3530 or DM3730) and UMTS.

Let me ask two questions to everybody:
* How long could you be willing to wait for it to really become available?
* How much would you think you could afford to pay for such a board?

Regards,
Nikolaus
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[Matthias Apitz]

El día Friday, August 13, 2010 a las 11:22:02AM +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller escribió:

>
> Am 12.08.2010 um 14:12 schrieb RANJAN:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > When is the next and more powerful openmoko (capable of seamless 3D video and faster processor) is going to be released???
>
> Assume, you could get a motherboard upgrade board that fits into the Freerunner (or Neo1973) case. Based on the TI OMAP3 SoC (OMAP3530 or DM3730) and UMTS.
>
> Let me ask two questions to everybody:
> * How long could you be willing to wait for it to really become available?
> * How much would you think you could afford to pay for such a board?

Wrong question, for me.

I will not use any other 'smartphone' (computerphone), which:

- is not Linux or FreeBSD driven and open as Linux/FreeBSD are normaly
- does not have X11
- does not provide access by SSH to the system
- does not have a resistive touchscreen (to address single pixel)

So, an iPhone is no option for me; if my Freerunner will fail, I will
try to get it working again, and I will wait until the next generation
of OpenSource phones, even if I would have to reactivate my old Siemens
S10 for some time, meanwhile waiting.

Give me UNIX or give me a pencil :-)

        matthias

--
Matthias Apitz
t [phone] - f [phone] - m [phone]
e <[hidden email]> - w http://www.unixarea.de/
Solidarity with the zionistic pirates of Israel?   Not in my  name!
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[Xavier Cremaschi]

Le 13/08/2010 11:37, Matthias Apitz a écrit :

> Wrong question, for me.
>
> I will not use any other 'smartphone' (computerphone), which:
>
> - is not Linux or FreeBSD driven and open as Linux/FreeBSD are normaly
> - does not have X11
> - does not provide access by SSH to the system
> - does not have a resistive touchscreen (to address single pixel)
>
> So, an iPhone is no option for me; if my Freerunner will fail, I will
> try to get it working again, and I will wait until the next generation
> of OpenSource phones, even if I would have to reactivate my old Siemens
> S10 for some time, meanwhile waiting.
>
> Give me UNIX or give me a pencil :-)
>
> matthias
>

Well written. Same thing here for me (but I don't care about touchscreen
being capacitive or resistive).

Xavier.


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[Sam Tygier]

On 13/08/10 10:37, Matthias Apitz wrote:
> Give me UNIX or give me a pencil :-)

+1

with emphasis on being about to modify


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[Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller]

Am 13.08.2010 um 11:37 schrieb Matthias Apitz:

> El día Friday, August 13, 2010 a las 11:22:02AM +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller escribió:
>
>>
>> Am 12.08.2010 um 14:12 schrieb RANJAN:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> When is the next and more powerful openmoko (capable of seamless 3D video and faster processor) is going to be released???
>>
>> Assume, you could get a motherboard upgrade board that fits into the Freerunner (or Neo1973) case. Based on the TI OMAP3 SoC (OMAP3530 or DM3730) and UMTS.
>>
>> Let me ask two questions to everybody:
>> * How long could you be willing to wait for it to really become available?
>> * How much would you think you could afford to pay for such a board?
>
> Wrong question, for me.
>
> I will not use any other 'smartphone' (computerphone), which:
>
> - is not Linux or FreeBSD driven and open as Linux/FreeBSD are normaly
> - does not have X11
> - does not provide access by SSH to the system
> - does not have a resistive touchscreen (to address single pixel)
>
> So, an iPhone is no option for me; if my Freerunner will fail, I will
> try to get it working again, and I will wait until the next generation
> of OpenSource phones, even if I would have to reactivate my old Siemens
> S10 for some time, meanwhile waiting.
>
> Give me UNIX or give me a pencil :-)

Do I interpret you correclty, that your answer to my questions are:

* I will wait *any* time, as long as it fulfills my opensource requirements
* I accept any price

regards,
Nikolaus


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[arne anka]

> Assume, you could get a motherboard upgrade board that fits into the  
> Freerunner (or Neo1973) case. Based on the TI OMAP3 SoC (OMAP3530 or  
> DM3730) and UMTS.
>
> Let me ask two questions to everybody:
> * How long could you be willing to wait for it to really become  
> available?
> * How much would you think you could afford to pay for such a board?

- re waiting: since most people change their phones after a couple of  
years, waiting shouldn't be an issue -- per se. more important would be to  
see a definite progress and sufficient informatrion about the way  
development takes (including delays, glitches and so on). seeing how nokia  
neglects the maemo/n900 community, not only in terms of information about  
fixes, updates, and the migration to meego, i think that's definitely the  
wrong way.
so, having a working phone right now and for the foreseeable future, i  
would be able to wait 2, 3 years (and if another accaptable phone comes  
out in the meantime, maybe even longer)

- cost otoh is really difficult. what company ever will attempt to make a  
free phone, it will need lots of money for development (not to speak of  
the still valid issue of purchasing items in small numbers to high  
prices). seeing, that i spend 300 on the fr and 500 on the n900 (two years  
later), i guess, that's the range -- but then again, the fr's casing is  
not really up-to-date and most likely the retro-trend will not discover  
the 2000s in the near future ;-). what i like in the n900 is the big  
screen or rather the screen-to-surface-ratio and missing bezel, and the  
slide-out keyboard (not the keyboard layout, though), which would enable  
me to use the consoles w/o X, if maemo would allow that ...

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[arne anka]

wasn't there something about samsung making the hw specs public for at  
least one of their samrtphones? i can't find that news article again.
and a long time ago someone (raster? can't find that mail) wrote about big  
things to come -- even that in connection with samsung?

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[Matthias Apitz]

El día Friday, August 13, 2010 a las 11:49:13AM +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller escribió:

>
> Am 13.08.2010 um 11:37 schrieb Matthias Apitz:
>
> > El día Friday, August 13, 2010 a las 11:22:02AM +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller escribió:
> >
> >>
> >> Am 12.08.2010 um 14:12 schrieb RANJAN:
> >>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> When is the next and more powerful openmoko (capable of seamless 3D video and faster processor) is going to be released???
> >>
> >> Assume, you could get a motherboard upgrade board that fits into the Freerunner (or Neo1973) case. Based on the TI OMAP3 SoC (OMAP3530 or DM3730) and UMTS.
> >>
> >> Let me ask two questions to everybody:
> >> * How long could you be willing to wait for it to really become available?
> >> * How much would you think you could afford to pay for such a board?
> >
> > Wrong question, for me.
> >
> > I will not use any other 'smartphone' (computerphone), which:
> >
> > - is not Linux or FreeBSD driven and open as Linux/FreeBSD are normaly
> > - does not have X11
> > - does not provide access by SSH to the system
> > - does not have a resistive touchscreen (to address single pixel)
> >
> > So, an iPhone is no option for me; if my Freerunner will fail, I will
> > try to get it working again, and I will wait until the next generation
> > of OpenSource phones, even if I would have to reactivate my old Siemens
> > S10 for some time, meanwhile waiting.
> >
> > Give me UNIX or give me a pencil :-)
>
> Do I interpret you correclty, that your answer to my questions are:
>
> * I will wait *any* time, as long as it fulfills my opensource requirements

yes;

> * I accept any price

yes, any price in the range of my Freerunner, more or less; or even 500
euro, depends on my economic situation in that moment;

        matthias
--
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[Ben Thompson-3]

On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 11:22:02AM +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:

>
> Am 12.08.2010 um 14:12 schrieb RANJAN:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > When is the next and more powerful openmoko (capable of seamless 3D video and faster processor) is going to be released???
>
> Assume, you could get a motherboard upgrade board that fits into the Freerunner (or Neo1973) case. Based on the TI OMAP3 SoC (OMAP3530 or DM3730) and UMTS.
>
> Let me ask two questions to everybody:
> * How long could you be willing to wait for it to really become available?

As long as my SIM card remains compatible with the Freerunner.

> * How much would you think you could afford to pay for such a board?

Depends on how good it is (Wifi/GPS/3G/etc. support). Maybe 500 euros.

--

Ben Thompson

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[Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller]

Am 13.08.2010 um 11:53 schrieb arne anka:

> wasn't there something about samsung making the hw specs public for at  
> least one of their samrtphones? i can't find that news article again.
> and a long time ago someone (raster? can't find that mail) wrote about big  
> things to come -- even that in connection with samsung?

Yes, I remember this as well. And, there was also some recent initiative by 'leviathan' to discuss with Samsung. But IMHO, even if they open the hw specs for one device, this will be one device. No promise for a future one. Some day they simply pull the plug for unknown reasons (like Sharp did with the Zaurus).

And, I never understood why we should assume, that a premier league player would ever care for a small community like ours. According to latest Gartner data Samsung sells 65 million phones per quarter. We have approx. 15k Freerunners over 3 years.

My conclusion is that a small company promises more long-term stability than a large one, even if development cost is high (it is lower than you all assume), and component cost are high in low quantities (that depends a little on choosing the right components).

Nikolaus



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[NeilBrown]

On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 11:22:02 +0200
"Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Am 12.08.2010 um 14:12 schrieb RANJAN:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > When is the next and more powerful openmoko (capable of seamless 3D video and faster processor) is going to be released???
>
> Assume, you could get a motherboard upgrade board that fits into the Freerunner (or Neo1973) case. Based on the TI OMAP3 SoC (OMAP3530 or DM3730) and UMTS.
>
> Let me ask two questions to everybody:
> * How long could you be willing to wait for it to really become available?
> * How much would you think you could afford to pay for such a board?
>

Is there a serious possibility of this?
I'm willing to wait a couple of years at least.  And the 500 Euro number that
people are throwing around seems OK.
Would this be re-using the case, display and touch screen and replacing
everything else?

NeilBrown

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[arne anka]

> And, I never understood why we should assume, that a premier league  
> player would ever care for a small community like ours.

not for that small community per se.
it would most likely be only a intersection of interests.
the manufacturer would be able to
- gain a reputation as being "open" (which might appeal to goverments as  
well b/c of several reasons)
- additional promotion by mouth-to-mouth through people being interested  
in open devices, probably cheaper than paid merchandising for the same  
group
- somewhat broadened developer base
- android inspired cost structure: make your hw specs public -> enable  
developers to make the best from it -> gain market share since your device  
offers the most b/c developers can use the hw and are not limited to  
app-like apis (cf iP[od|hone|ad])

with the success of android, i think a more open approach might appeal to  
vendors.


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[Hans Zimmerman]

On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 11:22:02 +0200, "Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller"
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Am 12.08.2010 um 14:12 schrieb RANJAN:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> When is the next and more powerful openmoko (capable of seamless 3D
>> video and faster processor) is going to be released???
>
> Assume, you could get a motherboard upgrade board that fits into the
> Freerunner (or Neo1973) case. Based on the TI OMAP3 SoC (OMAP3530 or
> DM3730) and UMTS.
>
> Let me ask two questions to everybody:
> * How long could you be willing to wait for it to really become

available?

9 months, maximum 1.5 years. I don't think it will be dependent on the
life of my freerunner, it will rather be dependent on the capability of
living with the frustrations of the freerunner. There might be a moment I
say, I'm tired of waiting for a great user experience on a open smartphone.
Even though I like the great efforts of the community, we are still far
from having a great user experience. (I bet there is greater developer
experience then a user experience).
Sometimes, the basic Nokia I received with some office supplies order is
better for calling my bad hearing grand mother... .

> * How much would you think you could afford to pay for such a board?

If it is a true open smartphone, more then what I paid the freerunner but
I guess it certainly maxes out at 500euro's. Of course one should compare
the features as well, will it have futuristic technology or technology of
yesterday?
I do would check deeper whether there is any NDA for whatever component
which would limit open development. In that regard, I do not consider the
freerunner a open phone and it is very likely I would never have bought one
knowing there is a NDA limitation... .

Money is not everything, ideals are?

Hans

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