wanted: cashier for gta02-core

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wanted: cashier for gta02-core

Werner Almesberger
About a year ago, over on the Gta03 list, there was considerable
discussion on forms of organization for an entity to run a more
community-oriented effort towards making the next phone.

Nothing concrete came out of this, but we identified some areas
where such an entity would be useful. One of them was the
handling of finances, particularly donations.

Now, gta02-core has been offered donations in the past, and more
recently. So far, I haven't acted on these offers, and this isn't
nice.

One reason for me dithering is that I don't have any experience
with handling transactions on behalf of an organization, and I'm
a bit concerned that this may cause difficulties with the taxman,
particularly given how such things go in Argentina.

The most correct thing to do would probably for me to set up an
NGO here in Argentina, then open an account in the name of that
NGO, and handle the transfers through this account. I would
expect all this to take a lot of time and running around.

Worse yet, international transactions out of an account in
Argentina can be subject to quite a bit of bureaucracy even under
the best of circumstances, so that would be a further obstacle.

For these reasons, I would prefer if someone who has some
experience with this kind of things and their dos and donts would
take care of the finances of the project. This would involve
receiving donations, payment for prototypes, and making payments
for component orders.

If nobody steps up, I'll do it myself, but this is a task I'd
much rather see in the hands of someone who knows what he or she
is doing.

- Werner

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Re: wanted: cashier for gta02-core

Patryk Benderz
Dnia 2010-03-25, czw o godzinie 17:11 -0300, Werner Almesberger pisze:
> About a year ago, over on the Gta03 list, there was considerable
> discussion on forms of organization for an entity to run a more
> community-oriented effort towards making the next phone.
>
> Nothing concrete came out of this, but we identified some areas
> where such an entity would be useful. One of them was the
> handling of finances, particularly donations.
do you maybe remember subject of this post, or have a link to archives?
Maybe someone would like to refresh memory or just read it?

> Now, gta02-core has been offered donations in the past, and more
> recently. So far, I haven't acted on these offers, and this isn't
> nice.
Let's hope these offers are still actual :)

> One reason for me dithering is that I don't have any experience
> with handling transactions on behalf of an organization, and I'm
> a bit concerned that this may cause difficulties with the taxman,
> particularly given how such things go in Argentina.
Hi again,
        IMHO best option would be to set up such organization somewhere in EU.
This way you can have potential market, consisting of countries which do
not charge you additional taxes because of importing of this devices.
        Additionally AFAIK many (or maybe most) of GTA developers originate
from EU countries. All others - please do not take offence - this is
information I have read on one of FR mailing lists some time ago.

> The most correct thing to do would probably for me to set up an
> NGO here in Argentina, then open an account in the name of that
> NGO, and handle the transfers through this account. I would
> expect all this to take a lot of time and running around.
If someone step up to take responsibilities of "cashier", do you mind if
he/she chooses different country?

> Worse yet, international transactions out of an account in
> Argentina can be subject to quite a bit of bureaucracy even under
> the best of circumstances, so that would be a further obstacle.
That is next argument to set up such NGO somewhere in EU.

> For these reasons, I would prefer if someone who has some
> experience with this kind of things and their dos and donts would
> take care of the finances of the project. This would involve
> receiving donations, payment for prototypes, and making payments
> for component orders.
would be great if such a person is also skilled in tax related and
business related activities, and finally contacting with government
officials. Or maybe three person?

> If nobody steps up, I'll do it myself, but this is a task I'd
> much rather see in the hands of someone who knows what he or she
> is doing.
I also think this should be done by someone with proper background - you
already have done so much for the project.

        One more came up my mind. Selection of country and type of NGo should
be correlated. I mean, in different countries, there are different types
of NGOs. All countries/NGOs have their pros and cons. For instance one
type of NGO makes you less responsible in terms of giving your own money
in case of being unable to pay invoices (like limited liability company)
which is virtue, but on the other hand some of NGO's makes you
responsible to make some monthly reports, which adds more work and is a
"flaw".
        Thus these choices should be done carefully and be consulted with those
with appropriate knowledge. Maybe we should look for help with making
these decisions, on related news groups?
        Just my 2 cents.

--
Patryk "LeadMan" Benderz
Linux Registered User #377521
()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
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Re: wanted: cashier for gta02-core

Werner Almesberger
Patryk Benderz wrote:
> do you maybe remember subject of this post, or have a link to archives?
> Maybe someone would like to refresh memory or just read it?

I'll look it up in a bit.

> Let's hope these offers are still actual :)

Even better, one was actually upgraded ;-)

> IMHO best option would be to set up such organization somewhere in EU.

I think EU is good for this, yes. There's a long tradition of this kind
of forms of associations, "clubs", "Vereine", etc., in many countries
and it shouldn't be much of a hassle.

More sophisticated organizations would even have certain tax benefits,
but that's additional work and takes time.

I don't know how easy or hard such things would be in the US. Probably
similar to EU.

> If someone step up to take responsibilities of "cashier", do you mind if
> he/she chooses different country? [ than Argentina ]

No, not at all. Argentina is where I am, so that's where I could
try to set up an organization (assuming I'd need one to keep things
properly separated so that the tax authority doesn't get any wrong
ideas), but as I explained, this wouldn't really make sense.

> would be great if such a person is also skilled in tax related and
> business related activities, and finally contacting with government
> officials. Or maybe three person?

Heh, I knew "NGO" sounded a bit pretentious and could convey some
incorrect ideas ;-) I guess anyone who's played that role in a
"club" of some form or shape should know enough of the basics.

> One more came up my mind. Selection of country and type of NGo should
> be correlated.

By the way, I'm not suggesting that we need to set up any formal
organization. Depending on the country, associations can be formed
without any formal requirements, and may well be able to handle the
sort of transactions we need without further ado.

- Werner

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Re: wanted: cashier for gta02-core

Werner Almesberger
In reply to this post by Patryk Benderz
Patryk Benderz wrote:
> do you maybe remember subject of this post, or have a link to archives?
> Maybe someone would like to refresh memory or just read it?

A bit is in the very long "Welcome" thread. Alas, it's quite unnavigable
in the archives :-(

Here's a pointer to an entry point:

From: Steve Mosher <[hidden email]>
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 19:08:03 -0700
Subject: Re: Welcome
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>

Several more interesting discussions happened on the "community" list.
Two small ones:

http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2009-June/048920.html
http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2009-June/049178.html

Two bigger threads:

http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2009-June/049177.html
http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2009-June/049209.html

There might be more in the same area.

- Werner

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